Why Chris Niched Down and Now Focuses Only on Dental Practice Marketing with Chris Pistorius
Niched down and focus. Niching down can really be a beneficial move. While it can be scary thinking about firing some of your current clients to focus on one industry and build your new client list from there. This will allow you to become an expert on the one industry. Really dig down deep in the details to service your customers better and more profitable for you
Chris Pistorius is the founder of KickStart Dental Marketing which has consistently been listed as one of the top dental marketing companies in the country by UpCity, SEO For Growth, DesignRush, Expertise & AgencyVista. Having over 15 years of experience in dental marketing, he has worked with countless dentists & orthodontists across multiple facets of marketing, consulting, and coaching. He shares his expertise by giving marketing seminars across the country and hosting a weekly dental marketing podcast.
Before starting his dental marketing agency in 2009, Chris worked for online marketing giants AOL & MapQuest. He holds several online marketing certifications and is trained by Google on how dentists & other businesses can get the most out of their marketing efforts. He’s also the author of “The Ultimate Guide to Internet Marketing for Dentists.” Chris resides in the Denver, CO area with his wife Michele and two kids Kaitlyn & Brody
Full Transcript Below
Why Chris Niched Down and Now Focuses Only on Dental Practice Marketing with Chris Pistorius
Sun, 8/1 1:08PM • 30:08
dentist, people, website, clients, marketing, business, dental practice, patient, protect, ads, video, dental, big, practice, google, orthodontist, chris, hipaa, security, day
Chris, Roy Barker
Roy Barker 00:00
We are the podcast that brings you a wide variety of guests that can speak to a lot of diverse topics. And today is no different. We’re fortunate enough to have Chris Pistorius who is the founder of kickstart dental marketing. It has consistently been listed as one of the top dental marketing companies in the country by Upcity. SEO for growth and design rush expertise in agency Vista.
He has over 15 years of experience in dental marketing. And he has worked with countless dentists and orthodontists across multiple facets of marketing, consulting and coaching. He shares his expertise by giving marketing seminars across the country and hosting a weekly dental marketing podcast. Before starting his digital marketing agency in 2009. Chris worked for online marketing giants such as AOL, Time Warner, and MapQuest. He also holds marketing certificates and is trained by Google, on how dentists and other businesses can get the most out of their marketing efforts.
Also, not only is he a fellow podcaster, but he’s also the author of The Ultimate Guide to internet marketing for dentists. Niched Down and Focus. So Chris, an awesome resume. Thanks for taking time out of your day to be with us. Of course, thanks so much for having me. Appreciate it. Yeah, and we’ll talk a little bit about the dental marketing, for sure, since that’s kind of your specialty.
But I think when we first initially talked, one thing that really struck me is that if I’m not wrong, if I remember correctly, used to just have a typical marketing agency, kind of all across the board, anybody that came in, and so you decided to kind of niche down a little bit and go with the dental marketing. I just think that’s very interesting, because, well, for my opinion, you, you’ve been able to become an expert in that limited space about exactly what their consumers need want, and how to attract that business. So if you don’t mind, could you kind of walk us through, you know, that process kind of what led you to decide to do that? And then how that’s worked for you?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, yeah, when we first started the first year or so we kind of took on anybody that would pay us honestly, yeah. So he would get a, we’d get an auto repair guy, a lawyer, a dentist, you know, whatever it may be. And what we found out pretty quickly, really ROI was that, you know, every time we took on a new industry, we can, we really had to learn the lingo, kind of the ins and the outs of the business.
Sometimes that took too long. And our clients weren’t getting, you know, the type of return that they wanted, because we were kind of catching up and trying to learn their business, right? That’s when we decided that you know, what, we need to pick a niche and go with it and just become experts in that niche.
So we kind of looked at our books and our accounts, and we had, you know, five or six dentists at the time, and we were getting great results for them, they were pretty easy to work with. We’re like, let’s go for it. Now. The problem with that is dentistry is extremely competitive in terms of people trying to sell the dentist. So we had to come up with strategy to make ourselves unique. And, you know, that was, geez, almost 11 years ago now, and we haven’t really looked back. It’s been a great ride. And but we have found that niching down allowed us to really focus on clients and get the best results for clients.
Roy Barker 03:24
Yeah, I think that’s awesome. Because, you know, one thing you said that sounds very true is that, you know, every industry has some kind of lingo, and their consumers want to hear, you know, some kind of a pain point. So, I mean, if you’re, you know, this wide ranging, I learn all the pain points for everybody. Anyway, I’m sure that that helped now, so let’s talk about marketing yourself. Once you made this decision, when you walked into our call, or however, you know, you made initial contact with the dentist, how did that go? Were they impressed that you were kind of focusing in on them? Or did they really not care? How was that conversation? Niched Down and Focus.
Yeah, you mean, the existing clients that we had are just new ones yet yet?
Roy Barker 04:15
new ones whenever you were out, you know, kind of pitching your services? Did that hold some weight with them?
It definitely did. Because I’ll tell you there’s there’s a lot of especially in healthcare. Anything in healthcare, there’s a lot of stuff that you got to know about marketing wise. One of those examples are HIPAA regulations protecting patient information, right. What a lot of people don’t know and even some people in health care don’t realize. This is that even before a patient becomes a patient, you have to protect their information. So for instance, if they just fill out a form on your website saying, Hey, I’m not want to be a new patient. That has to be protected under HIPAA guidelines.
And so we took the time, the money and we had some HIPAA consultants come in and make sure all of our systems were protected. Data and encrypting everything. And so we became HIPAA certified. But that’s just one example of you know, niching down. And and being being able to talk to a dentist about that. Not only do you know the lingo. But you can also protect them and make sure that their practice is protected.
Roy Barker 05:15
Yeah, no, that’s a great point. And I didn’t even I wasn’t aware of that, that, you know, even before they were a client. And, you know, it’s funny. You bring that up, because just this morning, they were kind of rehashing the whole Tiger Woods incident that happened a couple weeks ago, and I’m not sure if you heard but they the, I guess California Department of Public Safety, whoever they’re, you know, like their state trooper department. They said that they could not even release details on this in on the incident.Which, you know, happened on a public roadway. So it’s, it was surprising, you know, how tight the HIPAA regulations really, truly are?
Yeah, I heard that same thing. And it’s a it’s a serious deal. And, you know, it’s, we’ve seen practices, not our clients, thankfully. But we’ve seen dental practices affected by this. And there could be big fines 2050 $100,000 a pop. So they’re the government’s pretty serious about it. Yeah. And it’s a pretty serious thing. And it’s something that that all health care providers should be aware of.
Roy Barker 06:19
And is that more wrapped around just for for my edification. Is that more wrapped around just kind of adding an extra layer of protection, once somebody fills out a form? Niched Down and Focus.
Yeah, it’s a lot of security. A lot of encrypting, you’ve got to make sure that whatever database that that information goes into, you know, is secured and protected and locked up. And the trust me, there’s a whole checklist of things that they, they want to make sure that it’s done. Also, anybody that can see that data has to be trained on how to protect it. So all of our staff members here, went through several hours of training on how to protect data.
And we had to make sure all of our computers. For instance, had, you know, malware security, and, you know, all these other security protocols. So there’s a lot to it. But, you know, you know. It’s one of those things that you just got to do. And you got to protect yourself and your patients. So we thought it’d probably be worth it to go ahead and do that.
Roy Barker 07:13
Yeah, no, that’s great. Because, like you said.Sometimes, you know, in business. I always say that sometimes we just don’t know what we don’t know. But then there’s also that when we figure it out. We need to have that trusted person and go to so I’m sure a lot of dentists that. You know, they think HIPAA, and they think they know just protecting the consumers or people that are their patients. And never really thought about that. And then the extra security. I think on top of that is always the training the staff. You know, we don’t need to click on anything that we don’t know what it is. And have very debt security protocol that’s wrapped around that as well.
Yeah, and the other thing with that is now everybody working from home, in some capacities anyway. So you got to make sure now that like your Wi Fi at home is under certain security protocol. So they’re okay, there’s a lot to it. And, you know, I actually on my podcast, I did a session not too long ago with a HIPAA compliancy. Niched Down and Focus. Officer, and she really went into all the details of it, and even some stuff that I didn’t know. So there’s, there’s a lot there. And a lot lot for a dental practice owner to really think about and know. So, yeah,
Roy Barker 08:23
so what? Okay, so you made this decision, we’re going to just go with the dentist orthodontist in that round. So what are some of the what are some of the quirky things that you have found that you’ve had to adjust to, in order to reach the audience. Something that may be different from just a normal, you know, standard marketing that we may do for another company?
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think, you know, a lot of it depends on what type of patient that the practice owner is after. We have clients that are, you know, after, you know, they’ll take all kinds of insurances, everyone out there. And then we have some clients that do fee for service only. So they only really accept cash, and they don’t really do anything with, with insurance. Then there’s everything in between. You know, I think the quirkiness of it is just being able to understand who it is that they want to market to.
Yeah, and once we have a good grip on that. Then that makes the marketing campaign that much easier, because we have a well defined target. And we can target that, you know, utilizing a lot of different methods. So I think it’s all about identifying it, making, adjusting, adapting. And then going after that, that market segment. Where it becomes a little bit more quirky, though, is when a client comes to us and they don’t know who they want to target. So that takes a little bit deeper conversation, and we’ve got to help them kind of figure that out. But it’s all good.
Roy Barker 09:47
Yeah, I would assume that in this business most the people that you’re trying to attract are very short fuse that you know. If you move to a new town, maybe you’re searching out to get a new dentist, but most People are like, I don’t even want to think about this dentist thing until I need it. Niched Down and Focus. And so now, unfortunately, got a toothache, I’m in pain. So I’m on the computer, trying to get the closest dentist or somebody that will take my insurance or whatever. So, how to how did y’all adjust to that?
Yeah, so we like to. So you’ve, you’ve heard the whole egg in one basket thing, right? Yeah. So you don’t want to put all of your eggs in one basket. And a lot of times we find dental practices that are just doing SEO. Like search engine optimization, getting their website to rank high on Google or search engine. So they just do that and just focus on that. Or some might just do like Google ads, right? Well, well, we take a strategy of we’ll try to create about 12 different baskets and put one egg in each one of those baskets, right?
Because we want to create a marketing strategy. That’s all about bringing in new patients from multiple places, Facebook, Twitter, Google, Yahoo being, you know, text messaging on your website, there’s a lot of different avenues. So what we really try to do is spread that around. So that if something happens, and Google changes their rules. For instance, on on SEO and how to rank, right, you know, one day you can ranking on the first page, and the next day, you’re not ranking at all right, so your new patient leads could go from, you know, 20 a month to zero?
Well, with our strategy. We’ve got backups, so that we’re, we’re drawing in, you know, patients from all over the place. And I think that’s, that’s really critical. And, you know, ensuring security and long term marketing strategy for sure.
Roy Barker 11:39
Yeah, I’m sure that is a practice that really transcends to most companies. You know, we talked about having a well rounded because you know. We want to do certain things, for those people that just got on the computer, or phone or looking for me, you know, today, right this minute. But we also want to build that the long term strategy and viability. That, you know, we’re doing the getting the information out there. Educating people haven’t things that are living forever on the internet. So maybe I don’t need you today. But you know, 234 months from now. You’ve built a big enough of a pipeline. That when I get on there and do a search, you’re gonna come up.
Yeah, and you know, doing that kind of eggs in a basket analogy. We’re able to attract different different people in different stages. So for instance, you know. When somebody is doing a search on Google, for a dentist, they’re typing in things like to pain dentists near me. So they kind of have their hands up, they’re ready to go to a dentist, right? Whereas Facebook, sometimes it’s more about getting your name out in the local community, getting your brand out there. And sometimes you find people that are ready to visit a dentist then. So by utilizing kind of two different strategies there you can, you can really cover a lot of ground marketing.
Roy Barker 12:57
Yeah, and you made a comment about another good thing about the diversification. Is if if somebody changes or algorithms or tweaks, there may be a setback for a period of time to give you a chance to catch up on that strategy, for sure. But, you know, we can also go a little deeper about maybe. Because I’ve heard in the past about making sure that you maintain your website, and that is the focus. Because some, there was a period of time where people focused on a social media platform.
And I guess the theory was that, well, if you have your own website, and you focus on that you can control you know, a lot of the aspects of that, whereas if you’re building all of your followings on a social media channel, the minute they change, it can be even more devastating.
Yeah, no question. We try to build long term marketing assets for our clients, the more control that we and our clients have over it, the better. So whenever you’re doing anything like that, like SEO, or Facebook advertising, you’ve got to really have somebody on top of it to see these changes come in, and allow yourself to adapt and adjust to those as quickly as possible. But yeah, there’s no question. I mean, you want to always try to build your own assets as much as you can, because you have the most control over there’s over those, but sometimes you just can’t control everything.
So just gotta have to make the best decisions, you know, for your practice. And what’s going to work well, for your practice. Yeah.
Roy Barker 14:27
So what are some mistakes, you know, like people that, like myself that try to do too much on my own? What are some of the really easy, big mistakes that you’re seeing out there?
Yeah, probably the biggest thing that we see is in this, anything that I’m saying right now doesn’t really just apply for dental by the way. I mean, a lot of this applies to any business out there. So but what we see a lot is a dental practice, or an orthodontist will come to us and say, Oh, yeah, we tried Google ads. And you know, he’s Spend, you know, $5,000 a month for six months, and we didn’t get anything out of it? Well, let me tell you google ads, if you’re doing it on your own is a beast, you’ve got to really know the ins and the outs of it to get it to perform accurately.
Right? Probably anybody that’s listening to this is probably thinking, Oh, this is exactly what happened to be. But that’s the biggest thing is we have dentists that have tried ads on their own, just haven’t got anything out of it, spend a bunch of money and run it? Yes. They’re just so complex, that you really need an expert to look at that.
Roy Barker 15:30
Yeah, anything that Google actually has they touch, it seems like, you know, they’ve got some very smart engineering type people and these interfaces that they design, they are very deep and very technical. So yeah, unless you’re messing with it all the time. And, uh, you know, I, I kind of laugh at this example of myself, I was doing some, some YouTube advertising, you know, putting up some clips and really wasn’t getting much activity. And so I started looking through, and I noticed that the devices that people were are mostly looking at were TVs.
Anyway, I was like, Hey, I don’t even know what’s going on. So when I finally looked through there, somehow I had instead of for the audience, I had checked Europe, in the United States. So there’s a lot of people out here. But you know, it’s easy. Those little mistakes like that are easy. And you know, I burned up a week, 10 days. Luckily, I caught it. Because, you know, it was a fluke that I even went back and caught it. But there are so many options, so many things that you just have to be aware of and know what is the best practice?
Yeah, and I’ll tell you the other thing with ads is Yeah, the technical stuff is complex, because there’s a lot of things that Google doesn’t necessarily will obviously tell you, you have control over. But you do. So that is important. But the biggest thing, I think with ads, and that goes for Facebook ads, too, is the actual ad. The copywriting. Yeah, you know, it’s it’s a lot of it is what you say. So having, you know, 11 years of experience and writing ads that our agency, we’ve got a pretty good pulse on what converts well, and what doesn’t.
So we don’t waste a lot of time. But if you’re a dentist trying to do this on your own, and you didn’t go to school for all those years to write ads, right. So it’s, you know, what, let somebody that, you know, has a little bit experience with that. So what we find is that the ad copy easily isn’t real good. And that’s costing them from some conversions as well.
Roy Barker 17:29
Yeah, and I use a little, little analysis thing on something, you know, on some text, and you’d just be surprised that the difference a word can make here and there, same sentence, same message that comes across, but just a couple different placements of words. And our ideas can really change the whole SEO value of that. Right? Yeah, for sure. And then the other thing, too, that I think that pictures, especially, you know, one thing I kind of talk a lot about is, I’m not a fan of stock photos, when we can take photos of real people take a picture of the real office to see, you know, is it modern looking?
Is it clean? You know, you get a really good feel for it before you even go. And so pictures and video sure are a very integral part of this entire process.
Yeah, and in fact, I was just talking to somebody yesterday about this when we do website design, even, you know, we take over some websites that are all stock photos. And I mean, that’s a big No, no, we’ve tested it with stock photos and without, and websites with actual, you know, photos of the office staff perform much better. You know, and I think it goes back to age old saying is that people buy from people, right? And dentistry, sometimes you don’t think about sales and selling things, but you are, I mean, at the end of the day, you’re selling a solution to a problem, right?
So you are selling and in some capacity. So I think when people are going online to check you out. And by the way, people are going online to check you out. They want to see what the practice looks like an office tour where they want to see what the doctors look like. They want to see and get a feel for the office. And if you can really do that well on your website or anything that you do even in your advert your paid ads or whatever. I think you’ve got a leg up.
Roy Barker 19:28
Yeah. Yeah, no, I’ve always been told I’m sure my audience gets tired of hearing me say it because it’s but it’s the truth is that you know, if you if you have something that’s just totally text, people may show up and read it. If you have a picture. It’s like leaving breadcrumbs to the text and then they say if you have video, it’s basically like leaving chocolate covered bread crumbs in order to get people there. That video is just it’s just amazing how incrementally how videos will score and videos will help, you know, in driving traffic and driving traffic or ads or however, but videos are very important.
Yeah, no question. We try to get every one of our clients, the doctor to be just a short like one minute introduction video to the to the practice in themselves. And we tried to put that on the homepage of the website. Not everybody’s comfortable doing it. But you know, we do our best because you’re absolutely right, those video video performs and video is is definitely a converting factor.
Roy Barker 20:31
Yeah, and I think like you mentioned too, is that we want to buy from people who we feel like we can connect with and so I you know, it’s a good practice for any business to have videos of introducing, you know, their employees or who they are what they do, instead of me having to try to read through and decipher it, you know, if I get a concise clear message from somebody from the company, I personally think that goes a long way.
Yeah, yeah, no question. And you know, we just launched a new service that where we actually reach out to our clients, patients, and try to get video reviews. So we’ve kind of developed this software that allows people to leave a dentist a video review, right from their phone, and makes it simple for now. So it’s working really well. I mean, a lot of people don’t feel comfortable going on video, that’s the biggest obstacle. But I’ll tell you, if if you can just get a few of those verses a written testimonial, video, testimonials really are powerful. So definitely recommend that to anybody as well.
Roy Barker 21:28
That’s a great idea. You know, the other thing somebody had pointed out to me years ago, is also on our social media, the importance of using pictures or videos, is the real estate value is that, you know, if you, if you have text, you know, you have, I don’t know, an inch copy or whatever, it’s easy to get scrolled past or maybe somebody didn’t even see it, it got kind of blurred in was, you know, the post before post after but, you know, when you have that picture video, now, all of a sudden, you’ve widened up that space to maybe you know, what, three or four inches? Much bigger attraction much bigger draw?
Yeah, no question. I guess that’s an awesome thought. And it’s absolutely spot on.
Roy Barker 22:11
Yeah. So what are some things to, you know, talking about websites, unfortunately, you know, when I see is sometimes as we neglect the website, it was built, you know, we take a deep breath, it’s done, it’s over, and we put it up there. And, you know, people may not, the company may not even go in there and look at it for two or three years. I mean, I’ve had some companies I’m like, you know, your website’s not even working, when I tuck your mattress into go over, there’s a, you know, nobody’s really monitoring. But, you know, what are some key things are some simple things that we can do to really enhance our websites to increase our conversions.
Yeah, these are gonna seem pretty basic. But you’d be surprised how many how many people don’t do this. But make sure your name, address and phone number is on every page of the website and clear, people are lazy sometimes, and they don’t want to have to go looking around for a phone number for you, right. So make sure you’ve got that basic contact information on every page of the website. Also always give them some way to communicate with you on every page. So other than phone, of course, but you know, we’ve had a lot of good success with enabling text and chat services on our clients websites.
Okay. That’s a great way because not everybody communicates the same way. Right? Right. younger generation now would prefer to, you know, do a chat or do a text versus picking up the phone and calling somebody, right. So why not just, you know, give people as a multitude ways to communicate with you. So, I know also a strong call to action, you know, you’ve got about three and a half seconds from when somebody hits your website. And they’ve already decided if they’re going to do business with you or not.
So have a good strong call to action, something that’s unique, we call it a lot of times a unique selling proposition, why should somebody choose your dental practice, versus the 50 others that might be within a two mile range of you? So you’ve got to get that very high up on your website, we call it above the fold on a website, a strong call to action, why should they choose you? And just really wow them with any photos of your practice? and reviews? Yeah.
Roy Barker 24:19
Yeah. And that’s important as well, I think is, you know, for myself, I look at you know, whatever that first screen comes up, I’m not somebody that’s going to scroll down. Like the old days, you know, it was a, I guess it was what we’d call the the depth of the page. It was like, you know, everything was on one page. And you’d have to scroll down and maybe, you know, four or five different pages to find information. But what is the value? You know, I guess the way I use it is, I like to see as much information as I can on that initial screen, but give me the option to click on something just to go a little bit deeper there.
Yeah, absolutely. No question. And, you know, you want it, you don’t want to answer everybody’s question in full detail, but you want to give them enough information to make them want to raise their hand and say, Yeah, I want more information, I want to reach out and talk to you.
Roy Barker 25:10
Right right. All right, Chris. Well, I certainly do appreciate you taking time out of your day to be with us. Any last minute tips on ideas you want to throw out before we wrap this up?
I think it’s just about taking action, you know, we come across, you know, marketing has, in the last 10 years or so 15 years, has become much more complex than it used to be, to be able to put an ad in the Yellow Pages, maybe do a little direct mail, and you’re kind of covered, right now there, you know, hundreds of places that you can go spend marketing on online. So we find a lot of people instead of trying to get help or figure it out, they kind of put their head in the sand and they don’t do anything. Yeah, which is the worst thing I think you can do.
So take action, if you need help, you’ll get it from somebody, but you know it, we’re in a market now that will rebounding And now’s the time to be aggressive and go after new clients, new patients, whatever business you’re in. So my best advice is just go do something.
Roy Barker 26:04
Yeah, I think it’s a, you know, bringing up the old Yellow Pages. And I’m old enough that I remember those that, you know, the the way that you did business back in that day was somebody came out created a yellow page ad for you. And then every year you just renewed it, and you really didn’t give it much thought. So I think that’s another concept we really have to be aware of today is that everything we do is so dynamic and it changes, you know.
I hate to say it, but you know, if you make a post or do something on the social media today, you’re probably already outdated tomorrow, something has changed. You need to deal with it. It’s not quite that bad. But almost. And so, you know, we really have to be dynamic with the, our approach our ads and everything and always be re evaluating those.
Right? Yeah, totally agree. It’s, it’s, everything’s fast now. Right? Yeah, that’s almost immediate feedback. And you got to be on top of it. And you know, like Google ads, for instance, it’s not just one of those things that you can set up and then leave it and forget about it. It’s something you’ve got to really be looking at almost every day to make adjustments and, you know, changes and things like that. So yeah, you’re absolutely right.
Roy Barker 27:14
All right, Chris. Well, thanks so much. Tell everybody Well, first off, I want to ask you what is a tool or a habit that you have, that adds a lot of value to your day, either personal or professional.
tool is probably going to be my calendar. Because I’m so it’s, like, we just talked, it’s a fast world fast moving industry. And, you know, if I if we don’t have here, I have good time management, and we’re letting our clients down to So for us, probably our calendars and communication and just making sure that we’re talking and we know what needs to be done. And when it needs to be done. I think if you can cover that and whatever business you’re in, you know, your head.
Roy Barker 27:55
Awesome, will tell people you know, I know that you really work with the dental trade, but tell people, you know, who’s your client, how you can help them of course, where they can reach out and get a hold of you. And then also where they can pick up the Ultimate Guide to internet marketing for dentists because I think, you know, as we’ve talked a lot of this will translate to the general public as well.
Yeah, no question. Yeah, so we work with really anybody in the dental industry, whether it’s a general dentist, Cosmetic Dentist orthodontist, we have a pediatric dentist endodontist any of the specialties that well, as well. So it really anybody in the industry, we typically only work with one client for market. So we don’t want to over saturate ourselves. And we’re really what you would consider more of a boutique agency, we’re not a big company, we’re always going to kind of have that old fashioned approach to our clients where we, you know, have personal communication.
So the best way to reach out to us is just go to the website www.kickstartdental.com there’s a button right there on the homepage that you can book a strategy, a free strategy session actually with me I do all of this strategy sessions. And you know, it’s no obligation it doesn’t cost you anything and you know, if you’re interested, you’ll get a lot of detailed information about your current situation with online marketing and what your competition looks like. What’s your market looks like? It’s pretty in depth. So at least you’ll know a little bit more about where you stand, you know, as as a practice, so just go to kick start dental comm do that. That’s probably the best way to reach out to us.
Roy Barker 29:29
Okay, great. All right. Yeah, if you’re a dentist out there, need some help y’all reach out to Chris and see what he can do for y’all. So, again, that’s gonna do it for this episode of the business of business podcast. I’m your host Roy. Of course you can find us at www.the business of business, podcast.com we’re on all the major social media platforms as well as the podcast platforms, Google tunes, Stitcher, Spotify, if we’re not a one that you listen to regularly, if you’ll reach out, I’ll be glad to get Decided to. So for now that’s going to do it. So please take care of yourself and take care of your business.